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Event - Live Describe Chat Transcript from Online CulturAll Summit on Nov 8, 2006

Transcript Start: 2006-Nov-08 14:54

Transcript End: 2006-Nov-08 17:07

systemUser Sambhavi Chandrashekar has logged in.
systemUser Joe Osawabine has logged in.
Deborah HessionI have DVD copies of the CulturAll 1/2 hr show (Includes Livedescribe) that was produced by CHUM and aired on The Canadian Learning Television a couple weeks ago, if anyone wants a copy...
Joe Osawabinehello
systemUser Christine Staddon has logged in.
Carmen Branjeyeah I'd like a copy
systemUser Faisal Anwar has logged in.
Carmen Branjemaybe everyone could state where they're from?
Cindy SchatkoskiThe Banff New Media Institute
Joe OsawabineDe-ba-jeh-mu-jig Theatre Group
Cindy SchatkoskiI don't actually know how this works. Could somene tell me?
Carmen Branjethe chat?
Deborah HessionCanadian Film Centre's Habitat New Media Lab (Action Pact project)
Joe OsawabineI am wondering myself
systemUser Vera Roberts has logged in.
systemUser Deborah Fels has logged in.
Cindy SchatkoskiWell, no. The presentation part.
Deborah FelsHi everyone
Faisal Anwarhello
Vera RobertsHi Deb
Sambhavi ChandrashekarHi Deb
Deborah FelsIt is good to see so many people
Deborah Felsthanks for attending
Deborah FelsWe want to begin by giving you a brief explanation of what we are up to
Cindy SchatkoskiDeborah, how does this work?
Deborah Felsincluding the software that we have built
Carmen Branjeso anyone want to start?
Joe Osawabinedo we know how many people are suppose to be here.?
Deborah Felswe did put up some notes for you to look at that may help fill in some.
Vera RobertsIt sounded like Deb was starting to me. Do you want open questions __ discussion now?
Cindy Schatkoskiah, okay. are we supposed to be seeing anything or is this all via chat?
Joe Osawabineperhaps we should wait until all participants are logged in, I know there are a few here from debaj that arent signed in yet
systemUser Ron Berti has logged in.
systemUser Faisal Anwar has logged in.
Sambhavi ChandrashekarJoe, all partners are invited, and we could let them join when possible
systemUser Cindy Schatkoski has logged in.
Faisal Anwarthats a good idea
Joe Osawabineoh we should just begin then
Deborah FelsCindy, there isn't really any set structure
Deborah Felsbut we have some questions that we have posted to seed the discussion
Carmen Branjethrought out some questions . . . I'll be happy to answer
Deborah Felsperhaps everyone can let us know what you want from this session
Sambhavi ChandrashekarDeb, can we take up the question about describing a play
systemUser Ross Mayot has logged in.
Deborah FelsSo perhaps Carment can begin by giving a brief outline of what we are doing
Deborah Felsas a beginning
Carmen Branjemaybe I can handle that, so you'd like to know how livedescribe would work for a live play like Hamlet?
Deborah Felssorry Carmen, I mean Carmen
Sambhavi ChandrashekarYes, carmen
Carmen Branjedid everyone get a chance to take a look at the video demo?
Deborah Hessionyes idid
Deborah Felsbefore we get to the play, I would like to give people an overview of what is happening
Carmen BranjeLiveDescribe is a total description package
Joe OsawabineI'm sorry but I didn't
Vera Robertsyes I saw the demo for the fashion show and am really curious about how to handle something with dialogue.
Carmen Branjeit does Post Production, Near-Live, and True Live description
Ross MayotUnfortunately, I have not yet looked at the video.
Cindy Schatkoskino, where is the video available?
Christine StaddonI looked at the demo but I am not quite sure how the software would be used 'live'
Carmen BranjeTrue live, where the audience is witnessing the event live
Vera RobertsIf folks want to look then they can go to the forums in another browser and still stay logged in to the chat.
Carmen Branjethe only thing the system can do
Faisal Anwaryes, i did
Carmen Branjeis cut off the describers mic if dialog is detected
systemUser Lindsay MacDonald has logged in.
Christine StaddonThat is what I meant by "live"
Deborah FelsCindy the video is in the demo section of the on-line notes
Sambhavi ChandrashekarCindy, the video is part of the material put up under Live Describe
Carmen Branjeduring Hamlet we are going to experienment with this system and test its viability
Sambhavi ChandrashekarCindy, I suggest you open another browser window and log into ATutor to parallely see the material
Carmen BranjeNormally in post production
Carmen Branjeaudio descrimiation is fairly straight forward
Carmen Branjebecause the audio signals are very clean
Carmen Branjebut with true live events, there will be lots of ambient noise
Carmen Branjeit is unclear how livedescribe will react to this noise
Faisal Anwarthe software is interesting, but can you do live editing?
Carmen Branjelive editing?
Carmen Branjeyou'd have to have pretty fast fingers for that ;)
Carmen Branjewe've taken a position that in live description you don't correct your mistakes
Carmen Branjenot enough time
Deborah Felsthe live part means that the show is in real-time and there wouldn't be enough time to do any editing
Deborah Felsthere is a similar problem with live captioning
Carmen Branjeso of course one of our research questions is what level of quality are people willing to put up with?
Carmen Branjeexactly
Carmen Branjethis is why live description is SOOOO hard
Carmen Branjevery high congnitive load
Vera RobertsWould you be able to use LiveDescribe for a musical performance?
Carmen Branjedetailed knowledge of the subject that is being described is absolutely crucial
Vera RobertsSorry for the interruption, you can answer that later.
Carmen BranjeI don't really see live describe being a useful tool for a musical preformance?
Carmen Branjeas its main tool is the ability to discriminate dialog
Vera RobertsIs it OK to continue with this digression on music?
Carmen Branjemain dialog from non-dialog
Carmen Branjesure
Carmen Branjea question might be . . . .
Carmen Branjedo you consider lyrics to be "dialog"
Sambhavi ChandrashekarVery hard to get event expert who can also describe, I guess
Carmen Branjesomething you wouldn't want to describe over?
Vera RobertsI understand the idea of LiveDescribe handling dialogue breaks but what about something like opera or a musical when there is pretty much always someone singing.
Carmen Branjeyes there are two major skillsets involved in live description
systemUser Faisal Anwar has logged in.
Carmen Branjeagain, I don't currently see a way to integrate live describe into a musical event
Deborah FelsI noticed some of our other participants are not contributing
systemUser Faisal Anwar has logged in.
Carmen Branjethe way I discriminate audio, detects singing as music for the most part
systemUser Galen Scorer has logged in.
systemUser Deborah Hession has logged in.
Carmen Branjesorry if I'm hogging the chat :)
Deborah FelsI wanted to make sure that everyone was comfortable with the terminology and the concepts
Cindy Schatkoskisorry, i was just watching the video
Vera RobertsOK, just a curiousity for me. Perhaps special software isn't needed for something like that.
Deborah Felsis everyone ok with the notion of audio description
Carmen Branjeyeah that's what it looks like
Deborah Felsand what that is?
Carmen Branjemight be overkill
Deborah FelsCindy, no problem
Carmen Branjealthough there might be something else out there other than audio discrimination
systemUser Faisal Anwar has logged out.
Carmen Branjethat could be incorporated into a software tool
Carmen Branjemaybe it could use other cues
Vera Roberts"that" is a musical performance like opera or a musical.
Carmen Branjelike lights
Deborah FelsThe other think that we are working on is that description , whether live or not, should be part of the entertainment
Carmen Branjemanually imputted information
Cindy Schatkoskiwhere do you think audio description would be most useful?
Deborah Felssorry, I switched subjects
Carmen Branjelive description? or description in general??
Deborah Felslet me say, regarding musical performances in general
Cindy Schatkoskilive description.
Deborah Felsis that they tend to be more sound based than other types of performances
Carmen BranjeI think live description has huge potential in theatre
Deborah FelsHowever, that does not mean there are not interesting visual things happening that could be described
Vera RobertsI think description should be part of the entertainment but perhaps should be optional for the audience.
Faisal Anwarso whats the experience we are creating??
Carmen Branjeit all depends on the show . . .
Deborah Felsyou are a very good question Faisal
Carmen Branjei've been to some concerts that were very visually unappealing and description wouldn't have served any benefit
Carmen Branjeeven something like the symphont
Cindy Schatkoskii agree
Carmen Branjeummm it looks like city tv is here?
Deborah Felsour goal is to maintain the entertainment value of the show
Deborah HessionMost of the music shows I go to these days have an enormous visual component to them
Carmen Branjedeb could you take over
Faisal AnwarIs it information sharing tool or to generate experience?
Vera RobertsCarmen, I really think that is not something that we can decide, especially if we are sighted.
Deborah Felsyes, I will
Carmen Branjevera, hold that thought, i'll be right back
Deborah HessionWhat user testing has been done?
Deborah Felsin the work that we have done so far on this question of information vs entertainment
Deborah Felswe have found that people prefer being entertained over being informed for non-documentary/learning situations
Faisal Anwarentertainment value, i think comes not only with sharing the information but also creating imagnition
Deborah Felsagreed
Deborah Hessionso the desription has to be part performance
Deborah Felswhich is why we are trying to blend video description techniques with the more emotional play-by-play techniques used for sports
Christine StaddonThe fact that your testing says that people like to be entertained seems to lean toward artists/entertainers being the describers
Deborah FelsDeborah, that is our thinking
Deborah Felsit is part of the creative process
Cindy Schatkoskiare you concerned about the description being too objective - not leaving room for creating imagination?
Deborah Felsand is creative in it own right
Deborah Felsbut blended with the rest of the show
Deborah Felsthe describer for the upcoming Hamlet is an actor
Deborah Felswith a passion for Hamlet.
Deborah Felshe is part of the Hamlet creative team, not a 3rd party coming in at a later time
Sambhavi ChandrashekarSo this is like a new art form
Deborah Felshe is thinking about his description as a performance in its own right
Deborah FelsSam, perhaps
Sambhavi ChandrashekarAn event with its own description
Cindy Schatkoskiyou mean he is going to rehearsals?
Sambhavi Chandrashekarand your tool facilitates that
Deborah FelsCindy, actually yes
Faisal Anwarmake sense, but then you might loose the other side, which is how "the user" will connect with the feel and mood
Deborah Felsnot only is he going to rehearsals but also he is being directed by the director
Ron BertiWe have been looking at the tools and resource people for translation and description as co-creators of new works, so that there is a true integration of the tools
Deborah Felsso that her vision is also realised in the description
Deborah Hessionso is the whole audience visually impaired
Cindy Schatkoskithat's great. do you think it's feasable to do this for every instance?
Deborah FelsI do
Deborah Felsthink it is feasible as long as the creative team is on-board
Deborah Felshowever, because description is an intepretation, most creative people are very happy to include it
Deborah Felsand take some control of it
Ron BertiThis means that our expectation is not that everyone in the audience has the same experience, or same story, or same message, just that everyone has a meaningful experience
Deborah FelsDeborah, no there are sighted members as well
Deborah Felsalthough a number of sighted individuals have been asking for head sets
Deborah Hessioni know i could use one for opera!
Sambhavi ChandrashekarExperience, I think Ron, is subjective, and LiveDescribe facilitates
Deborah FelsRon, I believe that they should be getting "the same message" as decided by the creative team
Deborah Felse.g., the director has been thinking extensively about how she wants her vision of the Hamlet expressed in the visual and auditory domain
Ron BertiBut its impossible for everyone to recieve the same message.
Deborah Felsright which is why
Deborah Felsit is about the message the director wants to convey
Deborah Felswhether or not the audience interprets that way is another issue
Deborah Felsbut I think that part of the enjoyment of the show is being entertained
Vera RobertsThe describer is like Bell Canada--only responsible for wiring outside of the house :)
Deborah Felsit si a difficult thing to try and measure
Faisal Anwarthe interface has some issues i think and also thats the back end of the software? what language you guys have used? Is it possible to connect the software with some other tool?
Deborah Felssome asked about user studies
Ron BertiI guess if your creation style uses a director, or sinlge voice or single point of view, that is possible. Many processes arent structured in this hierarchical way.
Deborah Felswe are conducting interviews with as many of the audience for Hamlet as we can (signted and blind)
Deborah Felswe did so with the Fashion Show as well.
Cindy Schatkoskiif a performance runs more than once, will a
Ross MayotWhat was the general view of the sighted members of the audience for the Fashion show?
Deborah FelsFaisal, the software is being written in C# with Direct Show
Cindy Schatkoskifresh description be used each time?
Deborah Felsand yes I believe it could be connected to other tools
Deborah FelsRoss, the sighted members of the Fashion Show audience who listened to the description unanimously enjoyed it
systemUser Bill Shawanda has logged in.
Deborah Felsthey thought is helped them understand and enjoy what was being shown
Deborah Felssince many people at that show did not have a fashion background
Sambhavi ChandrashekarI was a sighted member at the Fashion Show, Ross, and I endorse Deb's statement
Deborah FelsCindy, yes that would be ideas
Deborah Felsidea
Deborah Felssorry
Deborah Felsjust like you get from the actors themselves
systemUser David Osawabine has logged in.
Faisal Anwari feel describer is not enough to create an experience
Cindy Schatkoskiyes, wow, what a lot of work!
Deborah FelsFaisal, I think that is why having a domain expert is very important
Deborah Felsthey need that subject matter passion
Deborah Felsand it sure comes across nicely when that happens
Deborah Felsif you look at the Fashion Show, I think you can see what I mean
Deborah FelsI don't think it is any more work than what an actor must do
Deborah Felsactually I think it is less
Deborah Felswe will have the Hamlet describer point of view on that soon
Deborah Felsbut it is still a very difficult task
Carmen Branjehi, I'm back
Carmen Branjewith a video camera
Deborah Felstakes lots of energy
Ross MayotIs the describer's intention to focus on the blind member in the audience as well as to provide expert insights for the sighted members?
Carmen Branjesmile everyone!
Deborah Hession:)
Sambhavi ChandrashekarHow did you choose the describer for the fashion show, Deb?
Deborah Fels:-)
Faisal Anwardeboradh, what do you mean by domain expert?
Sambhavi Chandrashekar:)
Deborah FelsRoss, I think that the describer is meant to provide an interpretation of the visual events for a blind audience
Joe Osawabine:)
Deborah Felshowever our thesis is that this should be entertaining as well
Deborah Felsit is the entertainment part that I think sighted viewers enjoy
Deborah FelsSam, the fashion show describer was selected because she was a 4th year fashion student
Deborah Felswho had produced the show in her 3rd year
Deborah Felsso she knew how is worked.
Deborah Felsshe also had theatre training and was able to control her voice
Faisal Anwarwell, i see no's of different things here, experience through sounds, which could be so cool, describer has to be industry expert, not only about the show but also how to develop imaginations
Deborah Felsand she loved with all her heart, fashion
Deborah Felsyes,
Deborah Felsshe did participate in a video description workshop
Sambhavi ChandrashekarCould you share what the blind members at the fashion show had to say about the experience, Deb?
Deborah Felsand was learning so made some mistakes that she probably would avoid if she did it again
Deborah Felsbut I will tell you that the blind audience certainly found her fun and didn't mind the errors at all
Cindy Schatkoskii am just watching the fashion show clip now. very interesting!
Sambhavi ChandrashekarDo you see this becoming a professional skill, Deb?
Christine StaddonI watched the Fashion Show clip and found it entertaining. I understand the software cuts off describers mic . Can you help me understand better how the software facilitated the description.
systemUser David Osawabine has logged out.
Cindy Schatkoskiobviously the describer had a script in advance
Deborah FelsI just wanted to say that we are also trying another new thing with Hamlet
Deborah Felsthis entire sound track is going to be broadcast on CIUT, a local radion station
Deborah Felsas a radio-like drama
Deborah Felswithout the radio drama production part
Deborah FelsCindy, yes she had prepared notes
Deborah Felsnot a script
Deborah Felsshe spent time speaking with the designers, getting their perspectives about their own collections
Cindy Schatkoskiit sounds good.
Ross MayotCLT is sending a producer with a camera to the rehearsal of Hamlet, so I'm looking forward to seeing how the experience works. I have to depart now but found this interesting. Bye.
Deborah Felswe have just finished analyzing what parts of her script/notes she actually used
systemUser Ross Mayot has logged out.
Faisal Anwarbut the question is if i close my eyes and then i listen to the describer, its not taking me any where, where the "experience" starts
Deborah Felsand what parts were added/subtracted changed
systemUser Chris Wemigwans has logged in.
Cindy Schatkoskibut it makes me wonder how this will work for something like hamlet when there is already spoken word as part of the performance
Deborah HessionFor maxmium audience appreciation of this, I see benefit for performances that even sighted people need assistance to understand
Deborah HessionAs in hamlet, it is difficult language to hear and understand for the average person
Deborah Felsyes, I agree Cindy and Shakespear tends to have a lot of visual information described in the dialogue
Deborah HessionSame with opera
Chris Wemigwanshello all
Deborah Felsyes, which is why I think people have been asking for headsets
Deborah FelsFaisal, I don't have a good answer for you but we are going to try and measure
Deborah Felswhat people think about that
Deborah Felsthere really is nothing reported in the literature about audience reaction to the entertainment value of differen styles of description
Deborah Felsor really what is missing from conventional forms
Deborah HessionA create Cole's Notes, if you will
Deborah Hessioncreative
Deborah Felsright
Deborah Felsbut a real-time version I suppose
systemUser Chris Wemigwans has logged in.
Sambhavi ChandrashekarHi Chris
Deborah Felsalthough you get the full dialogue
Deborah Felsone of the interesting things with Hamlet is that the set is based on Esher
Deborah Felsand creates a visual illusion
Chris Wemigwanshey jo, you out there
Chris Wemigwanshi sam
Deborah Felsthe director and describer have been working on an auditory equivalent
Deborah Felswe are also having a touch tour before the performance
Deborah Felsso that people can go on stage and hear the sound from different parts of the set
Deborah Felsand perhaps feel the illusion
Joe Osawabinehi Chris
Deborah HessionI like that layer.
Deborah Felsand I understand the fight scenes are quite visually dramatic
Chris Wemigwanshey bill, what do you think abou this
Deborah HessionI went to the Opera and they had red LED board with subtitles translating the Italian
systemUser Bill Shawanda has logged in.
Deborah HessionAnd and LED board didn't go with the costumes
Ron Bertihi Joe and Chris. Catherine and Bruce are here with me
Deborah Felsyes, this is common at the opera
Deborah Felshi all
Vera RobertsDeb, what is Esher?
Deborah Felssorry, Esher is a lithographic artist
Deborah Felsfrom the early 20s (I think) who drew visual illusions
Deborah FelsOne famous drawing is the "hands-drawing-hands"
Sambhavi ChandrashekarRon, I do hope all of you were able to look at the fashion show and Carmen's movie
Bill Shawandausually repeated surreal imagery
Chris Wemigwansoh hello Ron, and Cath and Bruce
Vera RobertsAh yes, I know what you are talking about.
Bill Shawandahe isalso known for his stairwell illustrations
Deborah Hessionor the neverending staircases
Ron BertiWe have all seen the fashion show only
Deborah Felssorry can't spell Escher
Deborah Felssee
Vera Robertsa google image search for those interested in Esher
Sambhavi ChandrashekarThat's cool, Bill, I hear that
Bill Shawandahi sam!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deborah Felsright
Deborah Felsso you can imagine how difficult something like an Escher set will be for the describer
Christine StaddonThe accessibility project I work on positions the idea that being accessible opens your business to all not just people using wheelchairs....
Deborah Felsnot just for the set but for how is works with the play
Deborah FelsChristine
Deborah FelsRon, at the moment that is all we have
Deborah Felsbut we will have Hamlet in a couple of weeks
Christine StaddonDo you think there is a business case for inclusion since more than people who are blind benefit from description
Deborah Felsand some data relating to audience reaction
Deborah FelsChristine, I think that there is definitely a business case
Deborah Felsespecially if the audio-only version can be used elsewhere
Faisal Anwaryou might need to see and revirse the fashion show, imagine if there is a fashion show for blind users ?
Ron BertiExcellent We look forward to the Hamlet results
systemUser David Osawabine has logged in.
Deborah Felssuch as on the radio or as an audio-only product (e.g., like audio books)
Deborah Hessionpodcast
Deborah FelsFaisal, do you mean blind designers
Deborah Felsor blind audiences?
Deborah Felspodcast too
systemUser Owen Milburn has logged in.
Deborah Felspeople have been requesting soap operas to be done this way
Carmen Branjehey folks, i'm back
Deborah Felsbut this workshop is about the live stuff rather than any programmed stuff :-)
Carmen Branjejust talked to pauline from canadian learning channel? about description and livedescribe
Deborah Felsone of the questions that the fashion students and faculty had for me was
Deborah Felswhy would someone who is blind be interested in fashion as an audience member or as a designer
Cindy Schatkoskigood question
Bill Shawandawhy not?
Carmen Branjewell they might not have started life being blind?
Ron BertiHow can you ask that?
Deborah Hessionthat assumes blind people aren't interested in fashion
Deborah FelsBill that was my answer
Ron BertiWhy wouldnt they be interested?
Faisal Anwari mean both....
Vera RobertsDon't they know that people who are blind where clothing?
Deborah Hessionfabric and fashion is a tactile body experience also
Carmen Branjeclothing are for people looking at the person wearing it, not the person wearing it
Deborah FelsI think that there is a lot of education that we need to do with the cultural industries
Deborah Felsregarding this very concept
Deborah HessionI feel different in track pants than I do in a gown
Chris Wemigwansbrucew says"because they are intrested in fashion"
Owen Milburnthat's what i was thinking. could textures be described?
Carmen Branjeblind people might still want to appear stylish?
Deborah FelsI have just spoken with another director who thought that having video description would ruin her whole show
Deborah Felsshe couldn't imagine doing something like this
Carmen Branjewhat type of show was it?
Deborah Felsand she also said the "blind people have been to my show and seemed to like it"
Vera RobertsDeb, this director sounds like a tough case.
Carmen BranjeI'm sure when a director asks about the quality of the show, people are perfectly honest . . . . .
Deborah Felsit is a historical drama
Deborah Felsthey do lots of lighting effects for mood
Carmen Branjehistorical drama??? that would be perfect for description
Deborah Felsyes, I thought so as well
Owen Milburni think it would be a real challenge to describe everything in the show, as there are so many visual elements
Faisal Anwari think we all humans regardless to our physcal condition, wants and love to entertain ourselves and if there is good content (audio/video) it helps to motivate
Owen Milburnlighting. etc.
Deborah Felsbut at the moment while we are still trying to figure things out
Deborah Felsbest not to try and work with someone who really doesn't see value in it
Carmen Branjeindeed!
Faisal AnwarThe describer tool is a good starting point... but i think its not enough
Deborah FelsFaisal, I agree
Vera RobertsYes, Deb, I see your point although the resistance surprises me.
Carmen Branjein the states some theatres have been experimenting with pre-recording live description
Carmen Branjethat is cued by lighting
Deborah FelsOwen you are correct. As a result video description is an interpretation, not an auditory copy
Deborah Felsthe pre-recorded type of video description is only viable for long running shows
Carmen BranjeI think things like that, that reduce cost and labour are going to be very attractive to people who puts shows like this on
Deborah Felsand you miss the "live" element that you normally expect when you go see live theatre
Christine StaddonI agree education is key. Many businesses still think creating access is an aulturistic not that it will attract more customers. Same for enhancing the experience attracting a large audience
Deborah Felsbut I think it is worth experimenting with
Deborah Felsah, the reseacher can't help it.
Carmen Branjethat's true deb, but I bet long running shows make up a huge percentage of the threatre that people watch
Sambhavi ChandrashekarI guess research is always way ahead of adoption
Deborah Felsyes, but people still go to the theatre for the live experience
Deborah Felsthat is very different from the "pre-recorded" version
Deborah Felswell I think research is allowed to make mistakes
Deborah Felsand nobody gets too upset
Deborah Felsbut when you pay for entertainment I think people want a postivie experience
Deborah Felssorry, I mean positive
Faisal Anwarthere are few theatre companies in toronto too who are explore the different experience iun thetare setting
Owen Milburnwhat sort of experiences?
Deborah Felsyes, Faisal, anybody you know wants to try video description?
Deborah HessionYoung People's Player's might
Deborah Felsthey have to be willing to nominate a domain expert
Carmen Branjeyes the expert is really the only difficult part of livedescription
Deborah Felsbecause we think this is so crucial
Deborah Felssome asked about domain expert
Carmen Branjethe technology aspect is simple
Deborah HessionI think they would have the appreciation to consider
Deborah FelsI really mean someone who is familiar with the play and the performaners
Deborah Felssorry performers
Deborah Felsthe assistant director, for instance
Deborah Felsor an actor in the company or tryout who isn't in the perfomance
Carmen Branjeor even an additional "actor"
Faisal Anwarwell, i personally sould love to try it out, i am doing lot of real-time theatre work
Deborah Felsyes, I do too
Deborah FelsFaisal, wonderful
Deborah Felswhen do you want to start :-)
Deborah Felswhat about our participants from Debaj?
Deborah Felsthoughts = ?
Ron Bertiyes, we do too, but our emphasis has been on creating inclussively from the outset, which as an original creation company we can do.
Deborah Felssometimes it is difficult to get it all in
Deborah Felsthat is great
Deborah Felsto think about it at the beginning
Deborah FelsI think that is what we have done with Hamlet as well
Joe Osawabineyes as opposed to trying to add it on after the creation
Faisal Anwari think in mid of dec
Deborah FelsThe advantage of Shakespear is that in his day
Sambhavi ChandrashekarRon, LiveDescribe can be used for creating art inclusively from the outset
Deborah Felsplays were done with out any visual effects
Deborah Felsreally
Ron Bertito think about translation tools as theatrical conventions
Deborah Felsso there is a lot of visual content in the script itself
Deborah Felsyes, I agree
Deborah HessionIt's really important to consider at the beginning, so it isn't subtext, but integrated as part of the performance
Deborah FelsI agree
Deborah Felswhich is why we purport that it be part of the creative process
Deborah Felsnot just something that is done at the end
Joe Osawabinehas anybody here seen any of the pieces that were created on the "Stretch" project
Cindy Schatkoskino, sorry, i haven't
Vera RobertsThis has been a really interesting discussion, I'm looking forward to hearing about liveDescribe of the new partnerships that have started in this chat. I'll "see" you next week.
Deborah FelsI have
Deborah Felsbut I am not too vision impaired so it is difficult for me to assess correctly
Deborah Felsdid you collect any data from audiences with disabilities?
Deborah Felsbye vera
Joe OsawabineI was just wondering because they are perfect example of the work we have done creating inclusively from the offset and not trying to integrated elements of inclusion after the fact
Owen Milburnit sonds like there could be some interesting potential in creating live theatre that is accessible to the visually impaired.
Deborah FelsBTW I liked the pieces and was very entertained
Deborah Felsyes, I think so
Deborah FelsJoe, the Glenvale players are all blind actors that put on live theatre as well
Deborah Felsand they take an auditory perspective on their work
Faisal Anwarok, guys, i have to go now, nice talking to you... there are some good points we discussed and it feels good that now we are moving into theatre setting for thinking about accessibility in sharing
Faisal Anwarexperience, i will see you next week
Owen Milburni think tacking on a visual description at the end seems kind of a band aid. creating a new type of theatre seems far more interesting to me.
Deborah Felsbye Faisal I hope we talk more
Joe Osawabineyes I agree
Deborah Felsagreed owen
Ron BertiWe think it is possible and feasible to approach inclusive creation such that only certain elements of the show speak to certain audience members - in their 'cultural' modality.
Deborah Felsbut I also think that we have lots of work to do to convince directors that this is a worthwhile thing to do
Faisal Anwarwe will talk more, you can email me too @ This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Deborah Felsand that it only adds, not detracts from their original ideas
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Deborah Hessiondepends what the show's bottom line is
Owen Milburnthat sounds very interesting. so everyone would have parts that "speak" to them, and parts that do not?
Christine StaddonDeb, hopefully creating things like Hamlet as best practices will help you convice more directors.
Ron BertiYes, exactly!
Deborah Felsyeah, I hope so
Deborah Hessionyes more examples are good
Deborah Felsthe describer for the show is at OISE to be a performing arts teacher
Ron BertiAgain, we cannot all have the same experience, so lets just focus on everyone having a rich experience.
Deborah FelsI am hoping his experience will translate into some new teaching processes
Deborah FelsRon, you make a very good point
Deborah Felsand one that I think should be debated with all of the players involved in video description
Deborah Felsbecause does accessiblity mean access to the "information" or does it mean access to a "rich enteraiment experience"
Deborah Felsfrom our research people want the entertainment
Deborah Hessionaccessibility to the culture
Joe Osawabinethere is a place for both
Sambhavi ChandrashekarVideo description has been very helpful and live description just follows
Deborah Felsin general but there are some who want the information
Deborah Hessionto the artist intent
Deborah Felsthere is a place for both but there are also tradeoffs
Owen Milburnexactly. i think there are ways to make the experince rich, even if the specific information isn't being conveyed
Deborah FelsOwen, that is where we are at in our research
Deborah Felsbut it also puts a spin on the information that makes it more subjective
Joe Osawabinebut I think people generally go to the theatre to be entertained so there should also be some entertainment value in the audio description
Owen Milburnlike right
Owen Milburnoops
Deborah FelsI think that that is part of the entertainment but we also want to ensure that that is what people want out of it as well
Deborah FelsJoe, I think you are correct with that one
Deborah Felsand people are generally prepared to have less "accurate" information, whatever that means, in exchange for something entertaining
Deborah Felsthat is still "the show"
Deborah FelsI think that having the emotional elements are a big part of the entertainment
Deborah Felspeople what to be moved
Deborah Felssorry, want to be moved
Deborah FelsI think that is why the fashion show works
Owen Milburnhaving an audio description seems to lack theatrical quality. my opinion
Cindy Schatkoskii agree. i would rather have context than specifics.
Deborah Felsbecause the describer added her personal emotional flare to it
Deborah FelsOwen, I agree
Joe Osawabineyes I agree...and if you create with accesability in mind from the word can create inclusively
Deborah Felswe have looked at this in programmed television
Deborah Felsand have found exactly that, although we worked with comedy
Ron BertiSorry guys, I have to go. Look forward to more dialogue.
Deborah Felsand are now trying to get other genres to see if this ideas can cut across genres
Deborah HessionI must go also, thank you for sharing
Joe Osawabinebye ron
Deborah Felsbye Deborah and Ron
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David Osawabinebye ron, thanks
Joe Osawabineis there a place on this site that we can post comments and ideas as they arise
Deborah Felswe probably need to finish up this discussion
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Deborah Felsas it is 4:30.
David Osawabinebye all
Sambhavi ChandrashekarThank you very much, Deb and Carmen for leading and thank you all, for this lively discussion. It is wonderful to see new partnerships and possibilities emerging.
Deborah FelsI believe there is a forum setup for this workshop
Sambhavi ChandrashekarHave a great week, and we’ll meet here again next week same day same time. Bye and best.
Deborah Felsunder livedescribe for posting comments
systemUser David Osawabine has logged out.
Sambhavi ChandrashekarYEs, Joe
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Owen Milburngoodbye everyone. talk to you next week
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Sambhavi ChandrashekarPlease post in the forums any time
Deborah Felsif anyone would like to attend Hamlet, please let me know
Deborah Felswe would love to have you
Deborah Felsbye everyone talk to you next week
Christine StaddonThanks for the discussion. It is nice to get a better idea of what is being work.
Chris Wemigwansciao peoples
Joe Osawabineokay...I will check in periodically to see what has been posted as well as post any ideas that might come up from De-ba-jeh-mu-jigs end of things
Christine StaddonBye everyone
Joe Osawabinenice to cyber meet you all
Sambhavi ChandrashekarDeb, can I send out the Hamlet info to all in this group?
Deborah Felssure please do
Cindy Schatkoskibye
Deborah FelsI think that Smriti has done that
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Joe Osawabinealso one other question
Deborah Felsperhaps check with her
Sambhavi ChandrashekarThank you CIndy for making it
Deborah Felsgo ahead Joe
Joe Osawabineis this conversation from today going to be posted anywhere?
systemUser Deborah Hession has logged in.
Sambhavi ChandrashekarThe transcript will be available on this website, Joe
Deborah FelsSam?
Carmen Branjehey Deborah H?
Carmen Branjeyou mentioned something about a dvd?
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Deborah Felsgreat. thanks
Joe Osawabineokay great
Sambhavi ChandrashekarYes, Deb?
Joe OsawabineI will look for it...I
Joe Osawabineover and out
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Deborah Felsbye Joe thanks for your thoughts
Deborah Felsthey were great
Deborah Felssorry, Sam I was just wondering if you were still here
Sambhavi ChandrashekarYEs I am
Deborah Felsthanks for facilitating the session
Deborah FelsI think it was fun
Deborah Felsmy hands are sore though
Sambhavi ChandrashekarIt was excellent, Deb
Deborah Fels:-)
Sambhavi ChandrashekarI think it was because of your ability to take it thru
Deborah FelsI will be helping Jonas next week as well
Deborah FelsI guess
Sambhavi ChandrashekarThat would be wonderful, thanks again
Deborah Felsok talk to you later
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Sambhavi ChandrashekarSorry about your hands :(
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Last Updated on Friday, 13 April 2007 14:36